War Council

[Levgre]

Once again, war strikes the lands.  The Founders and there allies have declared war on the Carolingian empire, who have only fought once, in support of their allies.
There was no announcement as to why, so it seems likely it is a war of aggression. 

It is not out of the question that Greek units could be garrisoned to help defend the Carolingian cities, if it emerges as the noble choice, and if other countries come to an agreement.   


We would like other nations to have their say.  The Americans, the Weis, the Skarsgardians (although they likely encourage any warfare), the Catfish (who seem to be performing scouting duties for the founders), the Grendal city states, and of course the parties already in the conflict.

the situation must be made more clear, first.  The Greek nation insists that the Founder's alliance speaks, and speaks promptly.


Eleutherius

[DribNairb]

Rest assurred a formal announcement will be made shortly.

[WarningU2]

We will support our comrades the Greeks in whatever decision they shall bestow on us.   Let the games begin. 

= Roosevelt of America

[DribNairb]

It seems a shame the American leadership cannot think for themselves. Perhaps the dokko mind control has progressed further than we thought and now hides in the Greek capital?

Instead, I urge you to look at the facts and decide for yourself. The greed shown by some members of Carolingia is bordering on blasphemy. The culprit(s) must be punished. I only hope the citizens do not have to suffer for the actions of the few who live in luxury in their palaces. The choice is in the hands of Carolus Maltman.

[Carolus Maltman]

Read the details of their wickedness and perversion of the Truth in their embassy. This war is for their own greed and reasons - not in defense of any Truth. They wish to spread their lies by force to this world. The free nations of the world should stop them.

[Carolus Maltman]

And because I missed the end of my turn after your DoW - you effectively double moved me to start the war.

[DribNairb]

And because I missed the end of my turn after your DoW - you effectively double moved me to start the war.

OOC: Yes - sorry about that. It wasn't deliberate. Bjarke and I both tried to contact you and we left messages in these forums stating that if you could play your turn in time you could play the next one first too. By the time we played there were only a few hours left on the clock and I had to go out. (Although you did gain a bit because France forgot to declare war and moved units into your borders! - so you gained a bit of a reprieve there).

[DribNairb]

Read the details of their wickedness and perversion of the Truth in their embassy. This war is for their own greed and reasons - not in defense of any Truth. They wish to spread their lies by force to this world. The free nations of the world should stop them.

<sigh> such ridiculous notions bear no resemblance to The Truth. The Founders have no desire of greed (indeed this war is mainly based on your own greed). The civilians of Carolingia deserve to learn of their role on The Path and to hear of the actions of their leaders. There is no requirement for them to join The Founders. However, there is a requirement that your leaders acknowledge their blasphemy and repent against thievery.

It seems the leaders of some nations are clearly lost in their own luxurious surroundings and have no understanding of the situation outside their own palace. the myrmidons and the dokko both had the same problem. Their leaders sent their own people to their deaths defending misguided beliefs in a vain attempt to save their own skin. It would be far simpler to simply admit to The Truth and save the lives of all involved. But it seems we have another stubborn leader who will sacrifice everything except his own life to prevent The Truth coming out.

[da_Vinci]

The Weian Council of Monks must retire to Shaolin to meditate on these events.

Our beliefs require us to pursue peace, to protect the weak, and to defend the just.

Xiaowen, First Emperor of the Wei Dynasty

[Levgre]

It seems for peace The Founders wish that the Carolingians recognize their harmful acts against the Founders, including...

1.  Temporary assistance of an enemy during war, and a trade deal improperly carried out.
2.  Theft by a Carolingian agent, from the Founder's treasury.


Neither of these seem that they necessarily deserve military action against the Carolingians.  Perhaps the Carolingians could repay the Founders for any damage they may have caused?

How much gold or resource do the Founders believe would be required as reparations, in place of military action?

[Carolus Maltman]

It seems for peace The Founders wish that the Carolingians recognize their harmful acts against the Founders, including...

1.  Temporary assistance of an enemy during war, and a trade deal improperly carried out.
2.  Theft by a Carolingian agent, from the Founder's treasury.


Neither of these seem that they necessarily deserve military action against the Carolingians.  Perhaps the Carolingians could repay the Founders for any damage they may have caused?

How much gold or resource do the Founders believe would be required as reparations, in place of military action?

And both of these claims are patently false.

[DribNairb]

It seems for peace The Founders wish that the Carolingians recognize their harmful acts against the Founders, including...

1.  Temporary assistance of an enemy during war, and a trade deal improperly carried out.
2.  Theft by a Carolingian agent, from the Founder's treasury.


Neither of these seem that they necessarily deserve military action against the Carolingians.  Perhaps the Carolingians could repay the Founders for any damage they may have caused?

How much gold or resource do the Founders believe would be required as reparations, in place of military action?

It seems my attempts at explaining the situation have failed. While I applaud you for attempting to simplify the situation it has, in fact, only made matters more murky since your statements are, in fact, untrue. Let me try and summarise the acts in dispute:

a) Temporary assistance of an enemy during war by allowing a deal by another third party to be smuggled through their lands [ The Founders concede this act was not necessarily initially known by Carolingian leaders ].
b) Acceptance of cash/resources from The Founders to prevent such smuggling, but then still failing to prevent the aforementioned trade
c) Refusal to acknowledge further requests to consider declaring war in order to fully prevent the illegal trade
d) Refusal to acknowledge requests from The Founders to declare war to prevent the evil dokko from carrying out their mind control plans, despite the fact that Carolingia gained land and safety from the deaths of The Founders and our comrades.
e) This leads to the irrefutable fact that Carolingia does not follow The Path. At best they ignore it. It is our belief they seek to undermine it. More proof of this exists in their further messages suggesting The Truth is wicked and perverse. And worse attempting to equate The Truth with normal truth just shows contempt in a lack of understanding. This is punishable by war and has been since the dawn of time.
f) A recent theft of currency from our central embassy has been traced to a small group of thieves claiming to have been sent by a subordinate of Carolus Maltman. If, as is claimed, these people are lying The Founders require proof as to who committed the act.

You will note that in previous conflicts regarding The Truth, the only deaths came from the inability of the national leader to recognise the futility of their situation. Instead of laying down arms and admitting their guilt they sent their own people on suicide missions. In every case the cities who conceded are now significantly happier and benefit greatly from their newfound fortune. The leader was the only person who chose to openly oppose The Truth. Hardly the picture of rape and pillaging painted by the Carolingian leader.

[da_Vinci]

The Council of Monks meditating in Shaolin request clarification:

It would appear that blasphemy is sufficient cause for war for The Founders.  What, in The Founders' opinions, constitutes blasphemy?  And is freedom a form of blasphemy?

Does the laying down of arms, when The Founders are outraged to the point of war, include the maintanence of soverignty by those who lay down their arms?  Is it the teachings of The Path, or the sovereignty of The Founders, that is sought to be spread?

Xiaowen, First Emperor of the Wei Dynasty

[DribNairb]

Blasphemy is simply the matter of attempting to undermine or disprepect The Truth. Those who merely choose to sit idle can stay in ignorance without fear. We offer teachings to such people and many have accepted. Those who don't may stay living in squalor if they so choose. This has been since the dawn of time.

But those who speak out against The One. Those who slander The Path. Those who seek to turn people away from The Truth. They are blasphemers. Such people who hold power over their nations cannot be allowed to stay there. Their people are denied the chance to learn of the meaning of their life and taught false meanings - all in the name of keeping such leaders in the comforts to which they are accustomed.

Sovereignty is completely different. The Founders have no particular desire to govern these people. Indeed many cities have chosen to settle under the command of other nations. Recently though, some citizens requested their government be moved to The Founders. Should they wish to move back under the leadership of someone else who does not blaspheme that would be no problem.

As always, I call upon those who follow The Path to join this crusade. Let the people themselves decide. And let the people choose who will govern them.

[da_Vinci]

The Monks have requested that I ask ...

Is following The Path consistent with maintaining a separate national identity, if not sovereignty?  Does the current offer of a peaceful resolution being made to the Carolingian People include a preservation of their national identity, if not their current leadership?  If so, how will that concept be implemented?

Xiaowen, First Emperor of the Wei Dynasty

[DribNairb]

Following The Path has little to do with national sovereignty. There are several nations who clearly follow The Path and share in the benefits of The Truth. Such nations have their own identity. I invite those nations to speak up and show the world how much better their lives have been since their enlightenment.

However, quite how Carolingia can maintain an independant government is unclear. The current leadership is unfit. If another leader should rise to follow The Path that could be acceptable, but I know not where such leadership will come from.

Alternative suggestions are welcome - but at the moment I see no choice save for removing the current government and replacing it. As always, any non-blasphemous nations are welcome to put forward a governing council.

[Carolus Maltman]

We have our proof that we have never ventured into Founders' lands:

Behold our maps of their outside borders, and the lands of the Maya - which we have not visited the borders of in 100s of years. Since they no longer exist - this proves our innocence in the matter of the stolen treasury.



So are we being attacked for not stealing your treasury? Or because we did not know that our neighbours were trading with the Dokkos, and were not requested to stop that trade? Even if we had declared war on the Dokkos, that would not have stopped the trade, because we knew not which neighbour was trading with them. Nor did you, nor did you request any additional action to be taken.

All our comments about your Truth came subsequent to your invasion of our lands on a trumped up pretext. If you truly follow Truth, you will withdraw, and we welcome further peaceful theological exchanges and extensive discourse.

[DribNairb]

Maps can be faked. Information can be withheld.

Should all this turn out to be authenticated it would have been far easier to simply provide this proof in the beginning. Even if true it only removes section (f) from our statement.

Instead you have blasphemed your way into a far more serious situation. It is now impossible for us to believe you have ever or will ever follow The Path. Section (e) of our statement shows that this is one of the reasons for war declaration. I had thought it might be possible for you to be rehabilitiated, but as time has gone on I have seen this become less and less likely.

The leadership must be changed.

[Rennald Skarsgard]

Skarsgard is tired of this banter.  My people want to see violence, quit talking and start killing. 

[Hoplosternum]

The Council of Monks meditating in Shaolin request clarification:

It would appear that blasphemy is sufficient cause for war for The Founders.  What, in The Founders' opinions, constitutes blasphemy?  And is freedom a form of blasphemy?

Does the laying down of arms, when The Founders are outraged to the point of war, include the maintanence of soverignty by those who lay down their arms?  Is it the teachings of The Path, or the sovereignty of The Founders, that is sought to be spread?

Xiaowen, First Emperor of the Wei Dynasty

Since the Catfish began to follow the Path our fortunes have changed. For the better No longer are we last Nor fighting alone against our larger neighbours. Our cities are secure and our armies rather than hiding in their fortifications are out fighting along side our many allies.

We used to be faced with the chore of signing in every day - with the added time and annoyance of loading a mod - simply to slave another archer or axe when the population would allow in our besieged towns.

Now we have the Path to ponder and allies to plan with. Our cities are growing as far as the tundra will let them and we even have a settlement close to a warm river basin in the more temperate region of the Continent. Our armies join our friends and allies and prospect for new lands in the warm central belt of the Continent. We can actually embrace war rather than fear it.

We feel fully independent to follow our quest for a warmer home. It is simply that following the Path leads to our nations best interests. How else could we hope to do anything but eek out a miserable fight for existance in the frozen south? How else can you, the Wei Dynasty, hope to expand further? And consider what the Truth and their allies have already done for you. You and everyone else on this Continent would by now have been speaking Norweigian and being forced to watch Zeitgeist movies under the Dokkos evil mind control had it not been for the Path's leadership. Oyzar came within an ace of getting Rifles in time to draft and slaughter the lot of us. But the allies proved just quick and determined enough and hurled axes and cats in enough numbers to topple the drafted Muskets of oyzar before it was too late.

And where were the Greeks while the fate of the continent, nay the whole world, was being decided? Throwing discus and watching grown men wrestle naked as they like to do Do you really fancy that for the rest of history? Or do you want to join us There are whole other continents out there. How are you or I going to be part of the great events ahead without allies with a direction? A Path no less

[Hoplosternum]

We would like other nations to have their say.  The Americans, the Weis, the Skarsgardians (although they likely encourage any warfare), the Catfish (who seem to be performing scouting duties for the founders), the Grendal city states, and of course the parties already in the conflict.

the situation must be made more clear, first.  The Greek nation insists that the Founder's alliance speaks, and speaks promptly.


Eleutherius

Then hear the Catfish

We are saddened that you have chosen to throw us out of your lands. We had been admiring your empty cities in the colder north. And were unsurprised top find large numbers of Greeks in big stacks in the warmer southern regions of your lands. For this is just what we have been doing, but in reverse, in the frigid south We too have moved our armies to warmer climes. Although our stacks are not quite as impressive as yours

[Hoplosternum]

Skarsgard is tired of this banter.  My people want to see violence, quit talking and start killing. 

We have to agree with our warlike ally and neighbour. The Truth has called us and we will follow where the Path leads....

Our Path is clear, as is our allies. But where do the Greeks stand?

[Capsavian Hopewell]

You and everyone else on this Continent would by now have been speaking Norweigian and being forced to watch Zeitgeist movies under the Dokkos evil mind control

And where were the Greeks while the fate of the continent, nay the whole world, was being decided? Throwing discus and watching grown men wrestle naked as they like to do

OOC:  this has to be one of the funnier posts in the history of this forum.  ROFL

[Levgre]

The Greeks and Carolingians have decided that the Carolingians will become a vassal state under the leadership of the Greeks.  The Greeks do not want to fight with any of the nations currently at war with the Carolingians, and offer peace.  No blood has to be shed, but that will be up to the Southern and Eastern peoples of the continent, if they decide to continue their violent agendas.

Eleutherius

[Carolus Maltman]

OOC: I would write a really good story for this, but my baby boy was born on Thursday, and I've been kinda busy. Managed to sneak my turns in!

[Levgre]

OOC: congrats on the spawn (im 23, not sympathetic to babies yet :p )  I'll be writing more later also

[Capsavian Hopewell]

OOC: I would write a really good story for this, but my baby boy was born on Thursday, and I've been kinda busy. Managed to sneak my turns in!

Glad you have your priorities straight;  getting your turns in! 

Congratulations, Jamie!  Awesome news!!!  Don't call him Carolus though.

[DribNairb]

The Greeks and Carolingians have decided that the Carolingians will become a vassal state under the leadership of the Greeks.  The Greeks do not want to fight with any of the nations currently at war with the Carolingians, and offer peace.  No blood has to be shed, but that will be up to the Southern and Eastern peoples of the continent, if they decide to continue their violent agendas.

Eleutherius

While I applaud your attempts to bring peace to the region, I am afraid that your agreement does not meet with our approval.
The blasphemous leader is still in control of his cities and people. Your deal allows him to retake full control whenever he wishes.
Your idea may have had merit had carolingia simply admitted their guilt in the beginning and had not attempted to undermine The Truth. The time for such negotiation has now passed. he will be cast down as has been decreed since the dawn of time.

You are, however, fully correct in that blood does not need to be shed. We have no quarrel as yet with the Greeks. We would, of course, encourage you to follow The Path but should you choose to remain neutral we will not intervene. However, should your forces become involved in the conflict we will be forced to treat you in the same way as Carolus Maltman.

Retreat your units. Encourage your vassal to do the same. As stated before we have no intention of casuing misery if it can be avoided. We merely wish to allow the Carolingian people to learn of The Truth.

I understand you may be concerned about the apparent expansion of The Founders empire. However, (unlike Greece who, in the past, has invaded her neighbours simply for expansive purposes) this is not our intention. The Catfish Confederation has expressed an interest in governing the cities. This is 100% acceptable by The Founders since Hoplosternum has followed The Path since the time we first met.

[Carolus Maltman]

OOC: I would write a really good story for this, but my baby boy was born on Thursday, and I've been kinda busy. Managed to sneak my turns in!

Glad you have your priorities straight;  getting your turns in! 

Congratulations, Jamie!  Awesome news!!!  Don't call him Carolus though.

OOC: Alexander Daniel Hong-Fu Maltman
Some are saying he's Aggressive/Philosophical... but I think its too early to tell.

[Capsavian Hopewell]

OOC: Alexander Daniel Hong-Fu Maltman
Some are saying he's Aggressive/Philosophical... but I think its too early to tell.

OOC:  Good name.  Can't wait to find out what his UU is.