liberalism

[bjarkekr]

ok, how is it possible to get liberalism allready?? Just saw that someone got it in the ingame log.

I dont want to say someone cheated, but im tempted to... Or is it just me who is a bad civ player?? 

[Capsavian Hopewell]

I am wondering how it was possible myself, along with the uber-gold production going on with whomever is the #1 gold producer.

I'd not venture it's cheating though, I think I am just not so great of a player as I once had thought!  It's possible someone had a great scientist and used him to get Liberalism, perhaps.

Maybe the person who is tops for gold (and presumably got Liberalism) might be willing to shed some hint at how they managed this amazing feat, without tipping his hand as to specific strategies?  I'm sure many of us would be curious. 

[Rennald Skarsgard]

Liberalism before A.D.!!!  I want to know where to download that hack!!  Or everyone on our continent is just a bunch of idiots. 

[DribNairb]

Have you seen the Demographics stats? The player with top GNP is miles ahead of me, and I thought I was doing pretty well (I reckon I should be in the top 3 in GNP).

And don't forget tech trading is allowed, so they didn't have to research everything en route.

They probably don't have too many defenses though...

[Capsavian Hopewell]

So you mean you aren't #1 in gold?!     Seems we have some wealthy nations in this world of ours.

[DribNairb]

Having the highest score doesn't always reflect if you're top in the important things. Unfortunately

[Dandridge]

Wasn't there some kind of exploit with Advanced starts that allowed people to build virtually unlimited gold in the start? I hope anyone didn't use it.

[bjarkekr]

yeah, I was afraid of something like that too..

Anyone knows who got liberalism?? It would be nice to hear a word from him.

[Levgre]

hey, it was me.  basically how I got it was beelining civil service, building an academy in the capital, trading some techs, and building lots of cottages. My capital currently produces 180 science, at 80%,  And one of my other cities produces 60-70 science, just lots of flood plains and villages.

Keep in mind, the advanced start does make things happen quicker than usual... as those early developing turns take up a lot of time.  In a normal game the actual time of discovery would have been around 0-200 A.D., maybe.

[Capsavian Hopewell]

Levgre, thank you for taking the time to explain your methods.  I tip my hat to you, as I thought I was doing pretty decent in this game, but you are running laps around my research and gold production!

It will be sad when you start nuking my knights.  I will cry myself to sleep tonight. 

[Levgre]

haha, research starts to take longer as you get higher.  While I grew fast, I'm not going to necessarily keep growing that much. You should have riflemen at least by the time I get nukes

[Capsavian Hopewell]

thanks, that makes me feel much better then. 

[Dandridge]

... My capital currently produces 180 science, at 80%,  And one of my other cities produces 60-70 science...

Wow, thumbs up! Those are really impressive figures at this date

[Levgre]

Here are 2 pictures of the city... most of the time my capital produces 120-150 science around this time, but this city site was somewhat exceptional.

[Capsavian Hopewell]

good gawd, man!  That is impressive.

[oyzar]

This feels pretty funny as this should be prety standard and to expect in such games. Seems like levgre had little to no competition in this game though... Best i have done in mp is liberalism 75 BC for MT(already researched nationalism) then getting gunpowder at 25 AD to be able to build cavs(this was warlords). People really should know how to build proper commerce cities / burrecracy capitals as otherwise it is quite obvious they will fall severly behind in the mid to lategame... In another game me and levgre played together in i barley beat him to liberalism despite him beeling more for it than me(we actually got it on the same turn, but i got him instead of him). Seems like noone really managed to challenge levgre in this game though, ganging up on the leader should be pretty classic in MP but i guess people never got around to it :p. It is not every day you see liberalism in the BCs but with tech trading on and with noble difficulty it is more than possible...

[Capsavian Hopewell]

I'm sure a few of us would disagree with your assessment as to Levgree having little or no competition.

[oyzar]

Well i didn't play the game... So i dunno what happen but obviously he won liberalism and then 1700ish years later he launched space colony so obviously noone distrupted him too much...

[Viktor Ahriman]

Well I almost build the Manhatten Project which my intentions was to nuke the world into oblivion, steal Levs spaceship and load it up with rhubarb from Aidern and live on Alpha Centauri while the rest of the world is living undergound like hermits for the next 10,000 years.   That is until the world voted for no nukes in the UN.

By the way, I am just joking!

Viktor

[Levgre]

They really couldn't attack me before about 1600 A.D. when they advanced to the level of infantry/transports/destroyers, because I had Infantry a bit before they got riflemen, and then tanks/planes  when they had infantry.  Of course a big reason this happened is because they fought so much over there.

If I was playing to win I would've nuked em across the world about when they got assembly line, but is an RP game and seeing as how that I would eventually win that battle but lose many of my own people(they were really too large for me, and my production was not too much greater, so I could not just dominate with nukes, it would have been a very long battle), I don't think a free democratic society would like that... I would've needed a regime overthrow bent on world domination ;p

[Capsavian Hopewell]

My rhubarb-fed army will CRUSH you!  well...next time. 

Levgre won soundly, yes, though I'll point out that it was an equal mix of technological prowess, agile diplomacy, and the ability to recognize opportunities and act upon them, which won the world for his country.

Aidern was 8 turns from completing our spaceship (with a maximum set of components, same as Lev's) and Drib had just completed the Space Elevator and a few components himself.  So we were not all that far behind.

[Sonnybonds]

Well I think Levgree played it smart by teaming up wiht Drib very early. they were the 2 biggest civs on the continent so the rest of the continent couldnt do much about it. I talked with Drib about going to war with Levgree but he didnt wanted it. I think that was in the gunpowder time or just before gunpowder. My country was just to small to compete with Levgree.

[DribNairb]

Yes, this was a bit of a strange game. Lev and I made a great team initially. It's interesting to note that Sonnybonds now admits to talking to me about going to war, but in the game he caused Levgree to declare war on me by sending my messages to him in a context which suggested I was trying to backstab Levgree! This caused me to abort my attack on Sitting Maltman and left me a bit stuck as to whether I could trust anyone on my continent. 
At the time it was a massive turning point in the game. In fact, I think I'll start a new thread with some memories as to what happened...

[Sonnybonds]

Yes!!! I remember!!!
That was really a turning point on our continent. I had this old messages from you. In this messages you told me you had ideas of attacking Levgree. I showed this messages to Levgree and then he attacked you!!!! Maybe i post this messages here if i can find it.

I was a bit dissapointed when Levgree stopped the war so soon. He had captured only 1 city and i was planning of invading your land more and capture some cities for my land.

Real nice RPG and diplomacy in that time. Thats when i really like Civ4. Its not just about war like Comand and Conquer but you need to have good Diplomacy too.

[DribNairb]

Yes, it was very well played by you. I still don't know quite how much of it Levgre believed (or even if you believed it yourself!) but it caused me several sleepless nights I can tell you!  I've just started another thread with my summary of the game. I'd love to hear your side Sonnybonds.

[Capsavian Hopewell]

I concur, the diplomacy and propaganda were stellar in this game.

I'll write up my point-of-view for your new thread, Drib.  Will be fun to see what REALLY was going on behind the scenes.